Israel/Palestine

Suicide bombers?!?!??

Egypt
Syria
Jordan
Lebanon
Iraq
Saudi Arabia

Have attacked Israel throughout history... It isn't a case of a few fucking suicide bombers... the arabs want them out.

The arab world could do what they're finally doing elect a representative to sit down and hold talks with the Israeli's... Preventing the Israeli's from playing the "we don't discuss with terrorists" card.

As for the right to return, neither israel or palestine could support an influx of 3,000,000 palestinian refugees - instead they should be compensated andgiven citezenship in the countries they are in (instead of being treated like second class citizens).

Joe, should Israel give back the occupied lands?

I'm glad to see your not one of these trendy lefties, Israel bashing seems to be all the rage at the moment... yet these lefties ignore the genocides in morroco and russia, fucking gaurdian readers

Yes, I don't believe in settlers either, there are elments of zionism that sicken me to my stomach... but the jewish people need a homeland... I refer you to my status "never again"

Agree 100%... I have always been biased towards Israel and probably always will be due to family links etc. One Jewish nation compared to dozens of arab nations, not to mention other countries and their national religions. It makes complete sense for the Jews to have a nation of their own. Without a nation they are susceptable to further persecution, even in this day and age.

i agree with whoever said earlier that isreal have more power etc to draw a line under the conflict.. but i dont really know much about it all.

what's everyone's big problem with jews? i've never understood why they were always persecuted etc..

Re: Israel/Palestine

My stance is it a crisis for the Middle East and not us. Let them get on with it.

It shouldn't effect us in any way now we have conquered Iraq and ensured the oil supplys.

Re: Re: Israel/Palestine

Erm I'm jewish pike its very mucha problem for me.

As for no impact on us, half of the current global problems could be resolved if peace was found in the middle east dumpling

Anti-semitism is one of the oldest forms of modern day racism, we've been persecuted in the middle east since biblical times (from both christians and muslims).

During medi-evil times jews were forbidden from owning land, so as a consequence they went into banking, lending money and charging interest (this infuriated many religious figures - as charging interest is forbidden in many teachings)... This accumliation of wealth and control over the money belt of europe caused many jewish masssacres and further persecution.

It was this legacy that led to the rise of anti-semitism in the late 1800's this peaked with the nazi party murdering 6 million... Modern day anti-semitism is taking a new guise... As a backlash to Israel Jews are suffering at the rising anti-semitic attitude throughout the western world.

England has seen a rise in anti-semitic attitudes by about 20% in the last couple of years.

Re: Re: Re: Israel/Palestine

Delightful made up statistic there Joe

I think you are aware of my stance on the issues: I beleive that

a) The Jewish people did not have a right to drive out the Palestinians after 3000 years. The League of Nations and the UK made mistakes in setting up the situation such that this happened, and the Arab leaders are at fault for triggering hostilities between the two sides.

b) Now that a state has been set up and become entrenched, a mediated solution is the only path. Power should be taken out of the hands of the involved and biased parties ( Palestinian leadership, Tel Aviv leadership, USA, UK) and placed in the hands of the UN, dependant on the UN being up to the task.

c) Both sides are now equally guilty - particularly the leadership on both sides, while the people of Palestine and Israel feel the brunt of this guilt ( suicide bombings and large scale collateral damage from Israeli military strikes ). The conflict will not be resolved in the forseeable future without intervention, short of an Israeli war decisively defeating the palestinians and claiming all of Palesting as part of Israel, or a terrorist nuclear strike against Israel.

I am strongly against all forms of bigotry, whomsoever may perpetrate it.

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This figure is actually compiled by the EU from crime statistics

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The rise in Semitism statistics were a guesstimate, based on the mdeia and similar sources to:

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4483_13.htm
http://fistfulofeuros.net/archives/000153.php

The actual statistic is impossible to workout, but it is unquestionable that there is a rising tide of racism in the western world.

A. If after years of persecution the Native Americans reclaimed a portion of their homeland - would you react in this same way?

The Jews after years of suffering under anti-Semitism in Europe and predicting the rise of Jew-hatred and fascism needed a homeland to save the race from extinction (or at the very least save the lives of millions). With a legitimate claim to Israel/British Palestine/Syria Palestina it seemed the obvious place to house the fleeing Jews.

Now they could either co-exist in an Arab run state, or they could establish their own state... If they were to co-exist with Arabs in an Arab governed state it would be no different to living in Europe - they'd still be vulnerable to genocide. A Jewish governed state was needed and created.

Don't forget the Jews were prepared to live alongside the Palestinians and acknowledged Palestine as state, the Arabs rejected this preferring to make Palestine part of Syria and denied the existence of Palestine, it was around this time they vowed to drive the Jews into the sea.... bad call.

B. the League of Nations originally split the land 50/50, the Arabs rejected this and attacked the Jews. Why would things be any different now? The only people who can solve this problem are the Arabs and the Jews... Every time the UN or its predecessor has intervened it has led to more bloodshed.

You can't review something as complex as the middle eastern conflict with a dualistic approach... It may be easy for Dubya to simplify things into good and evil, but in reality that just isn't the case - what is easy to dismis as bigotry or evil is often far more complex.

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Yes but you asked "everyones stance on the middle east crisis is.."

Thats my stance.

Its something for the Jews like yourself to be worried about where as me on the other hand, as a white Christian boy in England........ doesn't give a f uck.

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You'll give a fuck when it gets to the point when people are using nuclear weapons to blow up large chunks of the earth.....england isnt just 'our' country, this is 'our' planet....

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If only global politics were that simple.

Can i ask what you base this on, everything I've read contradicts that.

I'm not questioning that elments of both sides want peace... but it is my understanding that the vast majority aren't prepared to compramise and want rid of the other.

There are all sorts of people anti-zionist jews, left wing jews, far right jews, pro-israeli arabs, right wing arabs, etc. Its impossibel to say what everyone wants.

However as the two sides continuelly bang heads it only makes the loathing of the opposition worse... At least thats my interpretation of the events.

This argument for justification of what happens in occupied Palestine is destroyed by the fact the Jewish occupiers of Palestine have ignored dozens upon dozens of equally legitimate resolutions to withdraw from illegally occupied territories gained since this.

Re: Re: Re: Israel/Palestine

The Promise Messageboard has seen a rise in anti-semitic attitudes by about 373% in the last couple of years.

Anyone know why